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#1 Nov. 13, 2005 07:46:16

John H.
Registered: 2009-11-02
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[Mspgcc-users] Encouraging partiicpation in mspgcc. Cygwin is a dinosaur in cross compilers and debuggers


It is kind of tragic when software A (eg Dev-C++ non Cygwin name file
paths) cannot communicate with software B (eg GDB compiled to use
Cygwin name file paths) without extra massaging of file paths (eg
cygpath) that may not be practical. Not only that, the label 'Cygwin
compiled' does not even guarantee consistency about how file paths are
handeled.

CCE uses a Cygwin compiled GDB with its own custom interface to GDB
that is plugged into Eclipse. It can be argued they did not need to
use a Cygwin based GDB and could have discarded the parts that cause
problems (such as readline) if they do not want to put the resources
into massaging readline etc in without Cygwin.

I disagree that you 'cannot get rid of Cygwin'. It is not needed for a
cross compiler and debugger suite. It should not be difficult to
produce a generic 'no Cygwin' cross compiler template system that can
be shared among various compiler families. Codesourcery.com have
succeeded for their GNU ARM and their source code should be a good
starting point (I have tried to downloaded the source code twice but
it was corrupted).

There was a patch for GDB version 5.1 that compiled without Cygwin and
allowed readline. I regard it a poor decision not to incorporate the
patch for future versions.

I also suggest combining MinGW compiled and Cygwin compiled tools in a
single suite was asking for trouble. Either one or the other where
there is cross communication.

I also suggest if you want to encourage more participation and
contribution to mspgcc and similar that effort be given to solving
these 'unsexy' problems which should not exist. These tools have a
huge learning curve and time committment. I am not ashamed to say if
participants see potential for indirect financial reward (such as
through support and conultancy fees) then the attraction rockets up!


John Heenan

> From: Steve Underwood <ste***@*oppice.org>
>
> John Heenan wrote:
>
> >It would be nice if we could get rid of cygwin altogether, however
> >there are known issues using the cygwin free MinGW/MSYS tools with
> >regard to cross compilers, such as collect2 for the compiler and
> >readline for gdb. However codesourcery.com have overcome these
> >problems for its GNU ARM distribution. Apparently they get paid by
ARM
> >to maintain and update the distribution. There is a good chance
their
> >gdb for ARM will work in Dev-C++ and possibly Eclipse.
> >
> >
> You can't get rid of Cygwin, so forget it. We used to build with
Cygwin
> and MinGW. The MinGW versions ran faster, but had many many
problems.
> Curing those is a *major* project, as the MinGW folk have found. The
CCE
> folk also seem to have figured this out, as CCE using Cygwin too.
>
> Just live with Cygwin. It works well.
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>

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#2 Nov. 13, 2005 09:05:58

Steve U.
Registered: 2009-11-02
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile   Send e-mail  

[Mspgcc-users] Encouraging partiicpation in mspgcc. Cygwin is a dinosaur in cross compilers and debuggers


John Heenan wrote:It is kind of tragic when software A (eg Dev-C++ non Cygwin name file
paths) cannot communicate with software B (eg GDB compiled to use
Cygwin name file paths) without extra massaging of file paths (eg
cygpath) that may not be practical. Not only that, the label 'Cygwin
compiled' does not even guarantee consistency about how file paths are
handeled.

CCE uses a Cygwin compiled GDB with its own custom interface to GDB
that is plugged into Eclipse. It can be argued they did not need to
use a Cygwin based GDB and could have discarded the parts that cause
problems (such as readline) if they do not want to put the resources
into massaging readline etc in without Cygwin.

I disagree that you 'cannot get rid of Cygwin'. It is not needed for a
cross compiler and debugger suite. It should not be difficult to
produce a generic 'no Cygwin' cross compiler template system that can
be shared among various compiler families. Codesourcery.com have
succeeded for their GNU ARM and their source code should be a good
starting point (I have tried to downloaded the source code twice but
it was corrupted).If codesourcery have really succeeded in doing that then maybe it is nowa realistic goal to avoid Cygwin. I seem to remember gcc and binutilswere basically OK. It was gdb that was the sticking point. If you canactually get a clean copy and get it running, that would be veryinteresting.There was a patch for GDB version 5.1 that compiled without Cygwin and
allowed readline. I regard it a poor decision not to incorporate the
patch for future versions.Readline is a minor issue. As you said, we had a version of GDB 5.1 thatbuilt with MinGW and a very patched readline. It had many many otherproblems with assumptions theat are made about file names. Things likeC:/fred being seen as a list of two files, in standard Unix fashion,called C and /fred. MinGW had the same problems. It was far too big atask to fix this for any of us to be interested.I also suggest combining MinGW compiled and Cygwin compiled tools in a
single suite was asking for trouble. Either one or the other where
there is cross communication.

I also suggest if you want to encourage more participation and
contribution to mspgcc and similar that effort be given to solving
these 'unsexy' problems which should not exist. These tools have a
huge learning curve and time committment. I am not ashamed to say if
participants see potential for indirect financial reward (such as
through support and conultancy fees) then the attraction rockets up!Nobody ever tried to discourage participation. So far it has beenlimited. If you want to contribute, that's great.Steve

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