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#1 Jan. 23, 2011 16:03:35

Phinitnan C.
Registered: 2009-11-02
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[Kicad-developers] Part, Module, Package reorganization.


Hello,

After following the mailing list for a while, the new library & distribution
system is on going (thanks to Dick and Wayne), it would be good if this
subject is discussed again. In my point of view, what kicad lacks is part
(including module, package)'s consistency such as naming scheme in both part
and package, pin name & number scheme (especially, 2 & 3 pin's part),
category organization and removal of duplicated parts. I think if they are
organized in a more consistant way, it will be easier for other contributors
to share their parts (It seems to me that most of us create & use our own
parts without sharing that much) and make kicad more professional. And if
possible, I'd like to volunteer for this. Because this is the only thing I
can contribute to kicad for now.

What is your opinion?

Tony_______________________________________________
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#2 Jan. 24, 2011 16:41:39

Dick H.
Registered: 2009-11-02
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[Kicad-developers] Part, Module, Package reorganization.


On 01/23/2011 10:03 AM, Phinitnan Chanasabaeng wrote:
> Hello,
>
> After following the mailing list for a while, the new library &
> distribution system is on going (thanks to Dick and Wayne), it would be
> good if this subject is discussed again. In my point of view, what kicad
> lacks is part (including module, package)'s consistency such as naming
> scheme in both part and package, pin name & number scheme (especially, 2 &
> 3 pin's part), category organization and removal of duplicated parts. I
> think if they are organized in a more consistant way, it will be easier
> for other contributors to share their parts (It seems to me that most of
> us create & use our own parts without sharing that much) and make kicad
> more professional. And if possible, I'd like to volunteer for this.
> Because this is the only thing I can contribute to kicad for now.
>
> What is your opinion?
>
> Tony


The new distributed schematic part and schematic library system should give
you the power to contribute anything you would like to contribute to
eeschema libraries, including:

*) naming policies

*) physical location of the libraries.

*) extra properties, which can pull in information you want to incorporate
into a part.


Your work could become the new standard Kicad library if you want it to be,
or one of several. My work intends to expand choice, not enforce policy.
Policy is left to the library maintainers, and if you chose to be one, then
you get to set policy for that library. Expanding choice is tantamount to
enabling competition.

There will soon no longer be a need to think that you have to "get your
library into the project". That is not a requirement with the distributed
library manager. If you make your library exceptional, and put it where the
distributed library manager can find it, then you win customers. Oops,
users. It is just that simple.

I envision the day where the core Kicad project itself has little or nothing
to do with library maintenance. Think about that for awhile please.

With regards to PCBNEW's so called libraries (assuming we even want to
re-use that noun, 'library'), I have nothing to say at this time. Any
conversation should take place:

1) after defining some terms, and
2) at a point in time where we have someone ready and skilled enough to do
some actual re-design.

I am certainly not in a position to do any work over there, since I am
working on eeschema. And the terms have not been defined well enough to
have any conversation, IMO. We cannot even agree on the difference between
a footprint and a module. There is still time for that in the future
though. And much will be learned from doing all the Sweet work, some of
which can be transferred forward. In general it is a larger task and harder
to get right.


Dick



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#3 Jan. 24, 2011 18:01:49

Phinitnan C.
Registered: 2009-11-02
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[Kicad-developers] Part, Module, Package reorganization.


Dick,

The idea of distributed library is very elegant!! This will keep kicad's
developer on kicad itself not the library. Thanks again for your work. I now
wonder what can I contribute to kicad. Do you have any plan of overhauling
EESCHEMA? I may need to change the way to contribute to kicad by the
programming side.

Tony.

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Dick Hollenbeck <d***@*oftplc.com> wrote:

> On 01/23/2011 10:03 AM, Phinitnan Chanasabaeng wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > After following the mailing list for a while, the new library &
> > distribution system is on going (thanks to Dick and Wayne), it would be
> > good if this subject is discussed again. In my point of view, what kicad
> > lacks is part (including module, package)'s consistency such as naming
> > scheme in both part and package, pin name & number scheme (especially, 2
> &
> > 3 pin's part), category organization and removal of duplicated parts. I
> > think if they are organized in a more consistant way, it will be easier
> > for other contributors to share their parts (It seems to me that most of
> > us create & use our own parts without sharing that much) and make kicad
> > more professional. And if possible, I'd like to volunteer for this.
> > Because this is the only thing I can contribute to kicad for now.
> >
> > What is your opinion?
> >
> > Tony
>
>
> The new distributed schematic part and schematic library system should give
> you the power to contribute anything you would like to contribute to
> eeschema libraries, including:
>
> *) naming policies
>
> *) physical location of the libraries.
>
> *) extra properties, which can pull in information you want to incorporate
> into a part.
>
>
> Your work could become the new standard Kicad library if you want it to be,
> or one of several. My work intends to expand choice, not enforce policy.
> Policy is left to the library maintainers, and if you chose to be one, then
> you get to set policy for that library. Expanding choice is tantamount
> to
> enabling competition.
>
> There will soon no longer be a need to think that you have to "get your
> library into the project". That is not a requirement with the distributed
> library manager. If you make your library exceptional, and put it where
> the
> distributed library manager can find it, then you win customers. Oops,
> users. It is just that simple.
>
> I envision the day where the core Kicad project itself has little or
> nothing
> to do with library maintenance. Think about that for awhile please.
>
> With regards to PCBNEW's so called libraries (assuming we even want to
> re-use that noun, 'library'), I have nothing to say at this time. Any
> conversation should take place:
>
> 1) after defining some terms, and
> 2) at a point in time where we have someone ready and skilled enough to do
> some actual re-design.
>
> I am certainly not in a position to do any work over there, since I am
> working on eeschema. And the terms have not been defined well enough to
> have any conversation, IMO. We cannot even agree on the difference between
> a footprint and a module. There is still time for that in the future
> though. And much will be learned from doing all the Sweet work, some of
> which can be transferred forward. In general it is a larger task and
> harder
> to get right.
>
>
> Dick
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list:
>https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers<https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers>
> Post to : kicad-develop***@*ists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe :
>https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers<https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers>
> More help :https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>_______________________________________________
Mailing list:https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developersPost to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe :https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developersMore help :https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

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#4 Jan. 24, 2011 18:32:34

Dick H.
Registered: 2009-11-02
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[Kicad-developers] Part, Module, Package reorganization.


On 01/24/2011 12:01 PM, Phinitnan Chanasabaeng wrote:
> Dick,
>
> The idea of distributed library is very elegant!! This will keep kicad's
> developer on kicad itself not the library. Thanks again for your work. I
> now wonder what can I contribute to kicad. Do you have any plan of
> overhauling EESCHEMA? I may need to change the way to contribute to kicad
> by the programming side.
>
> Tony.

$ cd <kicad-src>/new
$ mkdir build
$ cd build
$ cmake ../
$ make help
$ make new-docs
$ firefox ../html/index.html


Then Read.

Then write an apache C++ module that implements the server side of
HTML_LIB_SOURCE. Or do it in python, or Java.

If you go C++ you can link in some code already written in /new.


Or write some python code that sits on top of the new python binding, but
this one is a little pre-mature, since the parser and formatter are not done
yet.


Basically the plan is to implement the C++ API already documented, then
switch code over to using it, sort of like moving a house. Make foundation,
move house. Most of the details become obvious when the house needs to be
lifted and then set back down and re-attached to the facilities. If worse
comes to worse, you move a board at a time.


Dick


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#5 Jan. 25, 2011 22:03:01

Simon R.
Registered: 2009-11-02
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[Kicad-developers] Part, Module, Package reorganization.


Hi Dick, Tony,We have been looking through the code and the sweet design docs and havesome ideas to extend the distributed lib system and build upon the sweetparser Dick is writing. There are some sketches that attempt to explainthe ideas and the aim is to post them this week or early next for comment.So if received well, we would appreciate any contribution/help/advicewith the coding.Simon



On 24/01/2011 18:32, Dick Hollenbeck wrote:On 01/24/2011 12:01 PM, Phinitnan Chanasabaeng wrote:Dick,

The idea of distributed library is very elegant!! This will keep kicad's
developer on kicad itself not the library. Thanks again for your work. I
now wonder what can I contribute to kicad. Do you have any plan of
overhauling EESCHEMA? I may need to change the way to contribute to kicad
by the programming side.

Tony.$ cd<kicad-src>/new
$ mkdir build
$ cd build
$ cmake ../
$ make help
$ make new-docs
$ firefox ../html/index.html


Then Read.

Then write an apache C++ module that implements the server side of
HTML_LIB_SOURCE. Or do it in python, or Java.

If you go C++ you can link in some code already written in /new.


Or write some python code that sits on top of the new python binding, but
this one is a little pre-mature, since the parser and formatter are not done
yet.


Basically the plan is to implement the C++ API already documented, then
switch code over to using it, sort of like moving a house. Make foundation,
move house. Most of the details become obvious when the house needs to be
lifted and then set back down and re-attached to the facilities. If worse
comes to worse, you move a board at a time.


Dick


_______________________________________________
Mailing list:https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developersPost to : kicad-develop***@*ists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe :https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developersMore help :https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp_______________________________________________
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#6 Jan. 25, 2011 22:44:34

Dick H.
Registered: 2009-11-02
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[Kicad-developers] Part, Module, Package reorganization.


On 01/25/2011 04:02 PM, Simon Rogers wrote:
> Hi Dick, Tony,
>
> We have been looking through the code and the sweet design docs and have
> some ideas to extend the distributed lib system and build upon the sweet
> parser Dick is writing. There are some sketches that attempt to explain
> the ideas and the aim is to post them this week or early next for comment.
>
> So if received well, we would appreciate any contribution/help/advice
> with the coding.
>
> Simon


Sure, the sooner the better, since work is already ongoing.

In fact it will be going faster now than it has been for the last two weeks,
which had me busy with personal stuff on both of the last 2 weekends.

Also, at some point please tell us who "we" is.

Thanks,

Dick



_______________________________________________
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#7 Jan. 27, 2011 04:45:20

Phinitnan C.
Registered: 2009-11-02
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile   Send e-mail  

[Kicad-developers] Part, Module, Package reorganization.


Dick,

I have read the new docs's introduction. The new format is very well
organized. I'm quite new to kicad programming's structure. So, instead of
looking into the new thing, I would better explore the current code to get
familiar with kicad. Then I would start contributing by fix some bugs and
add some features to kicad.

Tony

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:43 AM, Dick Hollenbeck <d***@*oftplc.com> wrote:

> On 01/25/2011 04:02 PM, Simon Rogers wrote:
> > Hi Dick, Tony,
> >
> > We have been looking through the code and the sweet design docs and have
> > some ideas to extend the distributed lib system and build upon the sweet
> > parser Dick is writing. There are some sketches that attempt to explain
> > the ideas and the aim is to post them this week or early next for
> comment.
> >
> > So if received well, we would appreciate any contribution/help/advice
> > with the coding.
> >
> > Simon
>
>
> Sure, the sooner the better, since work is already ongoing.
>
> In fact it will be going faster now than it has been for the last two
> weeks,
> which had me busy with personal stuff on both of the last 2 weekends.
>
> Also, at some point please tell us who "we" is.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list:
>https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers<https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers>
> Post to : kicad-develop***@*ists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe :
>https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers<https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers>
> More help :https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>_______________________________________________
Mailing list:https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developersPost to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe :https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developersMore help :https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

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