Electronics & Programming

develissimo

Open Source electronics development and programming

  • You are not logged in.
  • Root
  • » GTK+
  • » so, is this claim about pango still true? or does nobody actually care? [RSS Feed]

#1 Oct. 14, 2005 06:00:50

Russell S.
Registered: 2009-11-02
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile   Send e-mail  

so, is this claim about pango still true? or does nobody actually care?


wrote:is this still true? does anybody care? is there a way to avoid pango
entirely and still get AA fonts inside GTK2? will this ever be fixed
before everyone is using h/w acceleration to print button labels?

the issue raised here will *kill* ardour dead, and would force us to
also have to abandon GTK for Qt (a move I would really, really not want
to make). some clarification would help ....Everyone has something to complain about. Yes, Gtk+ 2.x is much slower
than Gtk+ 1.x, but you also have to take into consideration two things.

First, there are a ton of new features in 2.x that are very useful such as new
widgets. Second, computers are a lot faster now. Look at what he is saying:
40%-60% of a 1.2 GHz processor. Well, first of all, that is a very slow
processor,
but I don't think that is constant.

I am running an Athlon 2500+ and a Sempron 2800+ in my laptop and have
never seen any problems with the speed of Gtk+ that were significant. Ofcourse there is always room for improvement, but from what I have beenseeing in discussions across the net, there is a big focus on making Gtk+more efficient.

Lastly, I would like to say one thing. Gtk+ 1.x may be faster, but I refuse to
use any applications that still use it. Compared to Gtk+ 2.x applications, they
look horrible. I can't stand it because, yes they may be using X fonts which
are faster, but it also has the blocky/amateur look that comes with that.

In conclusion, if speed is a concern, I would recommend just maintaining
both the Gtk+ 1.x & 2.x trees because your team has already put a lot of
work into both. On the other hand, if you realize that most people are
running machines capable of handling a larger library, 2.x is very worth
using. (Don't use Qt. You will alienate every Gnome user because Qt looks
terrible on Gnome. Take this from someone that cannot even look at KDE
because it tears me apart. It's an aesthetic thing...)

I hope this helps. And just to note, I'm not trying to start a flame about
Gnome vs. KDE ... to each his own even though this is the Gtk list...I don't care how much tedious rendering pango does; if a gui isn't
lightning fast on a 100MHz pentium (or 25MHz 386 for that matter),
it's fundamentally broken in either or both design and implementation.
_______________________________________________
gtk-list mailing list
gtk-list@gnome.orghttp://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list

Offline

#2 Oct. 17, 2005 02:16:47

Daniel K.
Registered: 2009-11-02
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile   Send e-mail  

so, is this claim about pango still true? or does nobody actually care?


Russell Shaw wrote:I don't care how much tedious rendering pango does; if a gui isn't
lightning fast on a 100MHz pentium (or 25MHz 386 for that matter),
it's fundamentally broken in either or both design and implementation.Oh come on!
A pentium 100?
That's what you're using, right? Sure? Really sure? I don't believe you.Computers from that time are starting to pack it in. In fact, computersfrom that time have probably *finished* packing it in.If anyone has a pentium 100 ( or a 25MGz 386 for that matter ) stillaround, it's *NOT* to run Gtk2, it's to run a firewall, DNS, etc, and itwill not have X at all.Everyone else ( bar the occasional minimal-freak ) uses widget toolkitsdesigned to run on today's hardware.God help you when XGL / Glitz arrive :)

--
Daniel Kasak
IT Developer
NUS Consulting Group
Level 5, 77 Pacific Highway
North Sydney, NSW, Australia 2060
T: (+61) 2 9922-7676 / F: (+61) 2 9922 7989
email:
website:http://www.nusconsulting.com.au_______________________________________________
gtk-list mailing list
gtk-list@gnome.orghttp://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list

Offline

#3 Oct. 17, 2005 02:59:52

Russell S.
Registered: 2009-11-02
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile   Send e-mail  

so, is this claim about pango still true? or does nobody actually care?


Daniel Kasak wrote:Russell Shaw wrote:I don't care how much tedious rendering pango does; if a gui isn't
lightning fast on a 100MHz pentium (or 25MHz 386 for that matter),
it's fundamentally broken in either or both design and implementation.Oh come on!
A pentium 100?
That's what you're using, right? Sure? Really sure? I don't believe you.Computers from that time are starting to pack it in. In fact, computersfrom that time have probably *finished* packing it in.If anyone has a pentium 100 ( or a 25MGz 386 for that matter ) stillaround, it's *NOT* to run Gtk2, it's to run a firewall, DNS, etc, and itwill not have X at all.I'm using a pentium 166 as a dedicated mozilla machine among a few other
things.Everyone else ( bar the occasional minimal-freak ) uses widget toolkitsdesigned to run on today's hardware.God help you when XGL / Glitz arrive :)Well, i write a lot of stuff for embedded systems, and a full windowing
graphical widget kit for a 12MHz 8bit cpu using scaleable fonts is
entirely feasible.

There is absolutely no reason for the sluggishness of graphical toolkits
on anything faster than an old 386. Excessive layers of convoluted bloat
and poor architectural design is the problem. Rendering of arbitrary unicode
glyphs is fast and easy (unlike pango). Old laptops with 1MB video ram
should be entirely useable for web browsing with mozilla and gui
word processing.
_______________________________________________
gtk-list mailing list
gtk-list@gnome.orghttp://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list

Offline

#4 Oct. 17, 2005 03:28:45

Russell S.
Registered: 2009-11-02
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile   Send e-mail  

so, is this claim about pango still true? or does nobody actually care?


Russell Shaw wrote:Daniel Kasak wrote:Russell Shaw wrote:...I'm using a pentium 166 as a dedicated mozilla machine among a few other
things.Correction: 266MHz (with 64MB ram)

But that is very sluggish because of ram swapping when running mozilla.

In a typical gtk window with a dozen widgets in it, dragging the lower
right corner to resize the window shows a very sluggish iterative loop
of repositioning/resizing all the widgets, on a 2.4GHz AMD athlon.

I think the video card is unaccelerated in dual-head mode that i have.
However, even if unaccelerated, a well designed system should still be
lightning fast. You'd expect this if every individual pixel was retrieved
from the X server, alpha-composited, then written back.
_______________________________________________
gtk-list mailing list
gtk-list@gnome.orghttp://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list

Offline

#5 Oct. 27, 2005 12:07:28

Florian B.
Registered: 2009-11-02
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile   Send e-mail  

so, is this claim about pango still true? or does nobody actually care?


Hello,

Clemens Eisserer wrote:
> I do not think a P100 should be taken as a serious benchmarking
> machine anymore, however a P2-350 or a P3-500 should be able to handle

i think the source of these issues is that developers usually have PCs in mind.
In my opinion a ~200MHz machine is a good one for benchmarking. That reflects
the CPU power of an old PC as well as the one of a common mobile device like a
PDA. Now that there are several projects for mobile devices using GTK (i'm aware
of maemo and GPE) this fact is a reason to think about slower devices at least.

Greetings

Florian

--
The dream of yesterday Florian Boor
is the hope of today Tel: 0271-771091-14
and the reality of tomorrow. Fax: 0271-771091-19


6C 44 30 4C 43 20 6B 61 16 07 0F AA E6 97 70 A8
_______________________________________________
gtk-list mailing list
gtk-list@gnome.orghttp://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list

Offline

  • Root
  • » GTK+
  • » so, is this claim about pango still true? or does nobody actually care? [RSS Feed]

Board footer

Moderator control

Enjoy the 18th of November
PoweredBy

The Forums are managed by develissimo stuff members, if you find any issues or misplaced content please help us to fix it. Thank you! Tell us via Contact Options
Leave a Message
Welcome to Develissimo Live Support