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#1 Nov. 14, 2005 08:37:07

Lukas S.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


Ron Korving wrote:I was wondering; we've seen quite a few PHP6 wishlists passing by here. Isthere (and if not: should there be) a centralized spot where changes and newfeatures are logged, perhaps with a status saying whether somebody (and who)is working on this, or if it's still being considered, or if it has beenrejected, etc...I have created such a list with the help of a bunch of others. Its by nomeans official, but fairly complete (yet its likely that most of thepoints there will never make it):http://oss.backendmedia.com/PhP60regards,
Lukas

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#2 Nov. 14, 2005 11:25:32

Cesare D.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


Alle 09:36, lunedì 14 novembre 2005, Lukas Smith ha scritto:
>http://oss.backendmedia.com/PhP60Bundle a default application server, ie a default way to hold
objects/variables in memory (on ANY operating system) between two HTTP
requests? Anyone interested?

Ciao
ce
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#3 Nov. 14, 2005 13:47:02

Cesare D.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


Alle 12:25, lunedì 14 novembre 2005, Cesare D'Amico ha scritto:
> a default way to hold objects/variables in memory (on ANY operating
> system) between two HTTP requests

Hey, I didn't mean sessions :)

I meant something like creating a complex object and holding it in
memory with its classes hierarchy, so I don't need to reload it all at
every single request.

Ciao
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"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get
what you've always got", and then wonder why nothing's changed

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#4 Nov. 14, 2005 13:59:15

Lukas S.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


Cesare D'Amico wrote:Alle 12:25, lunedì 14 novembre 2005, Cesare D'Amico ha scritto:a default way to hold objects/variables in memory (on ANY operating
system) between two HTTP requestsHey, I didn't mean sessions :)I meant something like creating a complex object and holding it inmemory with its classes hierarchy, so I don't need to reload it all atevery single request.You mean something like SRM:http://www.vl-srm.net/Though a bit more finished :-)

regards,
Lukas

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#5 Nov. 14, 2005 14:19:28

Cesare D.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


Alle 14:58, lunedì 14 novembre 2005, Lukas Smith ha scritto:
> You mean something like SRM:
>http://www.vl-srm.net/>
> Though a bit more finished :-)

Exactly! I didn't mention it, but that's what I was thinking about.

And it would be nice if it was for PHP5 too :)

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ICQ 66605157 - Skype cesaredamico - Mobile +39 320 0635 028
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get
what you've always got", and then wonder why nothing's changed

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#6 Nov. 14, 2005 14:34:25

Matthias P.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


> You mean something like SRM:
>http://www.vl-srm.net/>
> Though a bit more finished :-)

Derick is probably too busy to finish SRM all alone, and my C skills are
way too bad to help him :) So this gets off-topic here, but what about
writing something like SRM in PHP itself to avoid the need of porting
the part written in C :)?

I asked Derick about this at the PHP Conference and IIRC, he said that
"Hive" from the Zend Coding Contest tried to do so?

The "server" itself would run using php-cli and listen on a socket. Let
alone performance and multithreading/-processing (PCNTL?), one could try
to do the RPC/RMI part by having "proxy" objects that perform
(un)marshaling. The overload language features could be used to make
these proxies "feel" like the remote ones. Passing objects to/from the
server could work by (un)serializing the objects, though the current
implementation lacks support for re-establishing object identity (hint,
hint ;).

Volunteers :)?

Matthias

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#7 Nov. 14, 2005 20:10:44

Jani T.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


On Mon, 14 Nov 2005, Cesare D'Amico wrote:Alle 14:58, lunedì 14 novembre 2005, Lukas Smith ha scritto:You mean something like SRM:http://www.vl-srm.net/Though a bit more finished :-)Exactly! I didn't mention it, but that's what I was thinking about.IMO, no. (bundling SRM or any other such thing)And it would be nice if it was for PHP5 too :)It think what we have in CVS works with PHP 5.

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#8 Nov. 14, 2005 20:46:15

Cesare D.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


Alle 21:10, lunedì 14 novembre 2005, Jani Taskinen ha scritto:
> > Exactly! I didn't mention it, but that's what I was thinking about.
>
>      IMO, no. (bundling SRM or any other such thing)

I don't want to bother, but why not? I'm accepting a simple RTFA (read
the friendly archives :) if that was discussed yet (but keep in mind
that this is a major number change).

Thanks, ciao
cesare
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ICQ 66605157 - Skype cesaredamico - Mobile +39 320 0635 028
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get
what you've always got", and then wonder why nothing's changed

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#9 Nov. 14, 2005 21:05:07

Marcus B.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


Hello Cesare,

Monday, November 14, 2005, 9:45:38 PM, you wrote:

> Alle 21:10, lunedì 14 novembre 2005, Jani Taskinen ha scritto:
>> > Exactly! I didn't mention it, but that's what I was thinking about.
>>
>>      IMO, no. (bundling SRM or any other such thing)

> I don't want to bother, but why not? I'm accepting a simple RTFA (read
> the friendly archives :) if that was discussed yet (but keep in mind
> that this is a major number change).

Simply because it is not the PHP way. And of course until now Derick
did not seem to push to bring it there. If anyone else writes an
application server and publishes it to pecl and using an application
server becomes the normal way in PHP it would most definitively added.
However without an application server you can still use a database or
a apc's apc_store/fetch. However it doesn't handle objects right now
so you'd need to serialize them.

Another thing you may probably want to notice is that storing an object
is not everything. You would need to serialize access to it or copy it
or talk to it through some communication system. Java choses the latter
with on the one hand the farmost slowest since it also includes locking
but on the other hand the solution that scales most (once you've brought
in the power to enable that locking and communication). Also which ever
solution you choose, your sysem will get much more complex.

Thus PHP takes the KISS approach - keep it simple safe.


Best regards,
Marcus

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#10 Nov. 14, 2005 21:29:23

Rasmus L.
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[PHP-DEV] Re: results of the PHP6 wishlists


Cesare D'Amico wrote:Alle 21:10, lunedì 14 novembre 2005, Jani Taskinen ha scritto:Exactly! I didn't mention it, but that's what I was thinking about.IMO, no. (bundling SRM or any other such thing)I don't want to bother, but why not? I'm accepting a simple RTFA (readthe friendly archives :) if that was discussed yet (but keep in mindthat this is a major number change).Until there is an implementation out there that is in common use, thequestion of whether to bundle it or not is rather premature.-Rasmus

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