Electronics & Programming

develissimo

Open Source electronics development and programming

  • You are not logged in.
  • Root
  • » PHP
  • » [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break thousands of apps out there) [RSS Feed]

#1 Nov. 25, 2005 17:18:44

Andi G.
Registered: 2009-11-02
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile   Send e-mail  

[PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break thousands of apps out there)


I must say that I feel deceived by this.Derick and I agreed that this won't be enabled for 5.1, and he thentook advantage of the fact that release managers changed to enablehis class. Doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth and it shouldn'thappen again in future.Andi

At 08:31 AM 11/25/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:Ilia Alshanetsky wrote:Sascha Schumann wrote:I've seen that text. It is hidden at the end of a paragraph
not related to the topic at all (something about class
constants). As such it is totally inadequate. There should
be a prominent point in the release announcement about
reserved symbols.Does this include anytime a new function/class is added we need to make
a prominent notice about since it reserves some name space?
Bottom line there is a problem and we need a fix for it. One solution
that has been suggested is to revert the date class and release 5.1.1,
but this means we pretty much deny ourselves the ability to have a
native "Date" class in PHP. Is this really the only fix we can come up with?I don't think it ties our hands. The current problem is that peoplehad about a week to prepare for this and the commit message of:"Moved date constants into the date class, they all class constants now."didn't exactly trigger people to run out to fix this. I was underthe impression that this date class was ifdef'ed out and although Ishould have realized that it is impossible to move the dateconstants to class constants without also enabling the class, Ididn't think of it when I saw this commit roll by. So I feelsomewhat tricked by this and I don't like that. I know it wasn't anintentional thing, but Derick's view that "Gotcha! It's in 5.1.0now, so you can't change it" doesn't sit well with me either.As I stated before, core PHP does reserve the right to pick up themost obvious keywords as we come up with new functionality, and Ithink we should have a date class, but we should do it in an orderlymanner and give people some time to migrate to something thatactually makes sense.At this point I don't really care if we roll it back or give it someobscure temporary name like date_ex which we can use as a temporaryplaceholder while we work out what this class should looklike. Despite all of Pierre's hot air, he does actually have somegood ideas in pecl/date that should be considered and Derick'stimezone code appears to be solid at least from the parts of it Ihave used so far. So let's just take a deep breath here, fix thenaming clash with pear and give them a chance to prefix their stuffand provide a sane migration path for users and then come up with asensible plan for what the PHP date class should look like and workwith the pear guys to make sure they can actually use this new classin their migration path.-Rasmus

--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit:http://www.php.net/unsub.php--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit:http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Offline

#2 Nov. 25, 2005 17:44:04

Andi G.
Registered: 2009-11-02
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile   Send e-mail  

[PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break thousands of apps out there)


BTW, just to clarify, I am not against a Date class (whatever itsname) in the long run but I think it'd probably be a combination ofwork Derick, Pierre and new contributions.Andi

At 09:17 AM 11/25/2005, Andi Gutmans wrote:I must say that I feel deceived by this.Derick and I agreed that this won't be enabled for 5.1, and he thentook advantage of the fact that release managers changed to enablehis class. Doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth and it shouldn'thappen again in future.Andi

At 08:31 AM 11/25/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:Ilia Alshanetsky wrote:Sascha Schumann wrote:I've seen that text. It is hidden at the end of a paragraph
not related to the topic at all (something about class
constants). As such it is totally inadequate. There should
be a prominent point in the release announcement about
reserved symbols.Does this include anytime a new function/class is added we need to make
a prominent notice about since it reserves some name space?
Bottom line there is a problem and we need a fix for it. One solution
that has been suggested is to revert the date class and release 5.1.1,
but this means we pretty much deny ourselves the ability to have a
native "Date" class in PHP. Is this really the only fix we can come up with?I don't think it ties our hands. The current problem is thatpeople had about a week to prepare for this and the commit message of:"Moved date constants into the date class, they all class constants now."didn't exactly trigger people to run out to fix this. I was underthe impression that this date class was ifdef'ed out and although Ishould have realized that it is impossible to move the dateconstants to class constants without also enabling the class, Ididn't think of it when I saw this commit roll by. So I feelsomewhat tricked by this and I don't like that. I know it wasn'tan intentional thing, but Derick's view that "Gotcha! It's in5.1.0 now, so you can't change it" doesn't sit well with me either.As I stated before, core PHP does reserve the right to pick up themost obvious keywords as we come up with new functionality, and Ithink we should have a date class, but we should do it in anorderly manner and give people some time to migrate to somethingthat actually makes sense.At this point I don't really care if we roll it back or give itsome obscure temporary name like date_ex which we can use as atemporary placeholder while we work out what this class should looklike. Despite all of Pierre's hot air, he does actually have somegood ideas in pecl/date that should be considered and Derick'stimezone code appears to be solid at least from the parts of it Ihave used so far. So let's just take a deep breath here, fix thenaming clash with pear and give them a chance to prefix their stuffand provide a sane migration path for users and then come up with asensible plan for what the PHP date class should look like and workwith the pear guys to make sure they can actually use this newclass in their migration path.-Rasmus

--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit:http://www.php.net/unsub.php--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit:http://www.php.net/unsub.php--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit:http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Offline

  • Root
  • » PHP
  • » [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break thousands of apps out there) [RSS Feed]

Board footer

Moderator control

Enjoy the 22nd of January
PoweredBy

The Forums are managed by develissimo stuff members, if you find any issues or misplaced content please help us to fix it. Thank you! Tell us via Contact Options
Leave a Message
Welcome to Develissimo Live Support